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Virgil
AD
G.Paquin
pierrre
kibok
9 participants
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kibok- Membre Bienfaiteur
- Messages : 11177
Date d'inscription : 13/12/2010
Localisation : TRUE-SUD
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par pierrre Mer 9 Mar - 22:46
Un "glorious twelfth", arc en main , tout de tweed vétu ?
Classieux.
Mais pas gagné, on dirait. Bonne chance !
Classieux.
Mais pas gagné, on dirait. Bonne chance !
pierrre- Messages : 357
Date d'inscription : 31/12/2010
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par G.Paquin Jeu 10 Mar - 5:32
Pour y avoir chassé plusieurs années de suite de suite, c'est vraiment LE dernier endroit sauvage d'Europe.
La chasse à l'arc est autorisée sur les terres privées : à condition de s'arranger avec le propriétaire et son stalker (guide)
La chasse à l'arc est autorisée sur les terres privées : à condition de s'arranger avec le propriétaire et son stalker (guide)
G.Paquin- Membre Bienfaiteur
- Messages : 396
Date d'inscription : 18/12/2010
Age : 70
Localisation : Assenoncourt
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par AD Jeu 10 Mar - 7:24
G.Paquin a écrit:Pour y avoir chassé plusieurs années de suite de suite, c'est vraiment LE dernier endroit sauvage d'Europe.
La chasse à l'arc est autorisée sur les terres privées : à condition de s'arranger avec le propriétaire et son stalker (guide)
Super souvenirs aussi, arc en main, dans ce pays magnifique et réellement sauvage sur certains domaines préservés.
Pas vu, pas pris, mais ça serait quand même mieux si c'était officiel...
AD- Messages : 311
Date d'inscription : 16/12/2010
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par Virgil Mer 27 Avr - 9:28
"Dear Bowhunt Scotland supporters,
It may seem that things have gone quiet subsequent to our meeting with Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) in March. SNH have recently assumed the role of the now absorbed Deer Commission for Scotland. I have to report that the meeting went well. Anders Gejer, Dennis Simmons, Sid Ball and myself met with senior deer managers and policy advisors in Edinburgh and discussed bowhunting and its merits for the entire morning. Discussions were extensive ranging from the legislation relating to deer management, through potential roe management in Scotland's suburban central belt, to including bowhunting equipment in a ballistic evaluation of ammunition scheduled for later in the year.
Having Anders at the meeting was doubly helpful as he was able to bring an international perspective and assist SNH with useful Scandinavian or European contacts in such obscure subjects as wild boar live trapping! Any way a positive relationship was established with SNH with assurances of follow up meetings. I quickly discovered my wife had once been the secretary of one of those present.
The Wildlife and Countryside Act and the Deer Act are classed as primary legislation. Changing these is more challenging than altering secondary regulation. Whilst SNH is the advising authority to the Scottish Government, it was made plain at the meeting that in order to move forward, we need to demonstrate to SNH a measure of support from outside the bowhunter community. I have therefore begun to speak with landowner and other interest groups. I am happy to say that initially it seems the chance of securing support from Scottish landowners is strong. Watch this space. In summary I would say the meeting was a positive opening move in the long haul to legalisation.
This summer (date and venue to be confirmed) we are planning an event at which Scottish deer managers and landowners can examine, handle, and try out modern bowhunting equipment. They will see the capabilities of the kit first hand and can ask as many questions as they want. This event will be run by the British Bowhunters Association and invitations will be sent out in early June.
Thank you for your support. We need even more bowhunters to add their support but particularly Scottish landowners and businesses who would benefit from bowhunting.
I will keep you informed of further developments.
Kind regards,
Ian Kirkwood"
À suivre...
It may seem that things have gone quiet subsequent to our meeting with Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) in March. SNH have recently assumed the role of the now absorbed Deer Commission for Scotland. I have to report that the meeting went well. Anders Gejer, Dennis Simmons, Sid Ball and myself met with senior deer managers and policy advisors in Edinburgh and discussed bowhunting and its merits for the entire morning. Discussions were extensive ranging from the legislation relating to deer management, through potential roe management in Scotland's suburban central belt, to including bowhunting equipment in a ballistic evaluation of ammunition scheduled for later in the year.
Having Anders at the meeting was doubly helpful as he was able to bring an international perspective and assist SNH with useful Scandinavian or European contacts in such obscure subjects as wild boar live trapping! Any way a positive relationship was established with SNH with assurances of follow up meetings. I quickly discovered my wife had once been the secretary of one of those present.
The Wildlife and Countryside Act and the Deer Act are classed as primary legislation. Changing these is more challenging than altering secondary regulation. Whilst SNH is the advising authority to the Scottish Government, it was made plain at the meeting that in order to move forward, we need to demonstrate to SNH a measure of support from outside the bowhunter community. I have therefore begun to speak with landowner and other interest groups. I am happy to say that initially it seems the chance of securing support from Scottish landowners is strong. Watch this space. In summary I would say the meeting was a positive opening move in the long haul to legalisation.
This summer (date and venue to be confirmed) we are planning an event at which Scottish deer managers and landowners can examine, handle, and try out modern bowhunting equipment. They will see the capabilities of the kit first hand and can ask as many questions as they want. This event will be run by the British Bowhunters Association and invitations will be sent out in early June.
Thank you for your support. We need even more bowhunters to add their support but particularly Scottish landowners and businesses who would benefit from bowhunting.
I will keep you informed of further developments.
Kind regards,
Ian Kirkwood"
À suivre...
Virgil- Admin
- Messages : 771
Date d'inscription : 15/12/2010
Age : 54
Localisation : Paris -
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par barebow Mer 27 Avr - 13:10
Souhaitons leur de réussir ...
Un petit retour en arrière chez nous pour au passage remercier M. Xavier Péchenart et ses acolytes pour nous avoir permis de pratiquer notre passion chez nous tout simplement en oeuvrant dans les années 90 ....
Merci à eux !
Et on croise les doigts pour nos amis Irlandais ...
Un petit retour en arrière chez nous pour au passage remercier M. Xavier Péchenart et ses acolytes pour nous avoir permis de pratiquer notre passion chez nous tout simplement en oeuvrant dans les années 90 ....
Merci à eux !
Et on croise les doigts pour nos amis Irlandais ...
barebow- Messages : 314
Date d'inscription : 20/12/2010
Localisation : Nord
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par kibok Mer 27 Avr - 13:12
barebow a écrit:Souhaitons leur de réussir ...
Un petit retour en arrière chez nous pour au passage remercier M. Xavier Péchenart et ses acolytes pour nous avoir permis de pratiquer notre passion chez nous tout simplement en oeuvrant dans les années 90 ....
Merci à eux !
Et on croise les doigts pour nos amis Irlandais ...
+ 1
(ecossais !)
_________________
kibok- Membre Bienfaiteur
- Messages : 11177
Date d'inscription : 13/12/2010
Localisation : TRUE-SUD
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par barebow Mer 27 Avr - 13:17
Merci !
C'est donc ça cette lueur étrange qu'il y avait dans le regard de ma prof de géo
C'est donc ça cette lueur étrange qu'il y avait dans le regard de ma prof de géo
barebow- Messages : 314
Date d'inscription : 20/12/2010
Localisation : Nord
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par Virgil Jeu 12 Jan - 15:51
Dear supporters and interested persons,
This e-mail is an update on the activities of Bowhunt Scotland, a campaign of the British Bowhunters Association. Included are suggestions of ways you can help promote bowhunting here in Scotland. Please take time to read the second half of this e-mail and get in touch with your own ideas about my proposed demand for a National Bowhunting Trial and how it might look in detail.
Join the BBA
If you are in the UK please consider joining the British Bowhunters Association. The number of members is crucial in improving BBA credibility as we push for legalisation. The BBA has a new membership category for supporters of bowhunting. See [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
Overseas Support
Thank you to the many from outside the UK who have expressed support. I intend to publish some of your comments and encouragement in the near future. We need all the encouragement we can get!
Insurance
Recently insurance for Bowhunting – where legal – has been made automatically available to members of BASC. See [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] This is a big deal for any who are concerned about potential incidents when practising with broadheads fitted. It includes third party liability for this. That a growing number of BASC staff are aware of bowhunting and its capabilities and are themselves bowhunters is most encouraging. The BBA is in talks with BASC to make the same insurance available to BBA members.
BDS
Now that Ray Mears is on the board of the British Deer Society, there are signs that it might be ready to soften its stance on bowhunting. BDS approached the BBA at England's CLA Game Fair requesting bowhunting information. In the past this would have been most unlikely.
SNH Ballistic Testing
The inclusion of bowhunting equipment in this proposed test of all relevant ammunition by Scottish Natural Heritage is still to proceed. But there has been a delay while SNH carefully design the test in order to be clear about what questions they need to answer. This is now likely to take place in 2012.
Spread the word
Please continue to make Bowhunt Scotland known amongst any interested persons you are aware of. All support is appreciated. The more who sign up to receive updates, the more popular we can demonstrate bowhunting to be, and move towards legalising bowhunting in Scotland and indeed the UK.
Finally, for your information and the opportunity to comment on the route towards legal bowhunting in Scotland and the UK, the rest of this e-mail constitutes my recently submitted short article for publication in the British Bowhunters Association Newsletter which looks at our progress and attempts to plot a future course:
Bowhunting in the UK
You may have heard of Bowhunt Scotland, a web campaign to legalise bowhunting. My name is Ian Kirkwood. I built this simple site bowhuntscotland.elrig.net and brochure in January 2010 after sitting on the idea for many years. I had the privilege of bowhunting in Zimbabwe with the late Douglas Mitchell (former chairman of the BBA) and other BBA members in 1997, a fantastic experience which served to build my frustration at not being able to bowhunt on my own doorstep. It may be useful to let you know a bit about myself and what I am hoping to achieve.
From my window I watch fallow and roe regularly and am the kind of hunter/angler who simply wishes to put one in the freezer occasionally, with the satisfaction of having caught it by myself in a fair chase. Although I have always had an air rifle I have never been much interested in hunting with the gun. Nor has travelling to far flung hunting venues been a strong ambition for me.
I met Douglas and the Ladywell Field Archers at their Dunkeld club in about 1991/2. I was always interested in hunting rather than competition and it turned out Douglas was the perfect teacher. Over the years I learned from him the wide-ranging contents of the NBEF manual and its practical application. We shot hundreds of arrows, followed fake blood trails, gralloched and dragged (rifle shot) deer, skinned and butchered carcases. I gained my IBEP card and assisted Douglas in training new bowhunters from Scandinavia.
Along the way there were numerous interesting events. I met Tim Poole (NBEF President at the time) occasionally when he was here visiting Douglas and ended up designing the NBEF magazine which I named Broadhead. Unfortunately it only went to one issue due to a lack of funding, but I was always keen to do anything I could to further the popularity of bowhunting.
Even as a novice I wondered why nobody was actively promoting bowhunting in the UK. I wrote a short paper entitled, A draft plan to legalise Bowhunting in the UK. When I showed it to Douglas and Clive they looked wrong-footed or even offended. I never received any further feedback or comment. It seems that a general pessimism about the prospect of bowhunting becoming possible in Britain was the norm in the BBA then and has been ever since, which I can understand. In the end this may be born out, but surely someone must at least put the case for bowhunting here. And if not us, who?
Whatever the unexpressed view of 15-20 years ago, a lot has changed since then. Scotland has acquired devolved government. This has opened up the possibility of meeting local civil servants and politicians in an effort to promote bowhunting. Suddenly unexpected angles, unrelated to the usual bowhunting issues, have acquired a kind of logic that was not there before, e.g. the concept that bowhunting would be good thing to have in Scotland – because it is something England does not have.
The BBA has adopted the Bowhunt Scotland campaign as one way of pushing for bowhunting in the UK. I would ask BBA members throughout the UK to give this limited campaign their support as a way of potentially securing a foothold from which bowhunting can spread to the rest of the UK.
Bowhunt Scotland
I call it a campaign, but it is rather passive really. More a statement of the case for bowhunting and a source of correct information. I designed a booklet (currently only in pdf format) called Ethical Bowhunting in Scotland. It is downloadable from the site [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] It is worth looking over the booklet and the site content. Your input as bowhunters and BBA members is welcome as there may well be good arguments that are not included or technical mistakes that need to be corrected.
So Far
So far we have enjoyed a meeting in March 2010 with the Scottish Natural Heritage deer managers (SNH absorbed the former Deer Commission for Scotland in 2010) and received the promise of a scientific evaluation of bowhunting equipment in an upcoming general test of ammunition, now to be held probably in 2012. At the Scone Game Fair near Perth we had much positive feedback and hope to take a stand there when one becomes available. This is all good so far as it goes. But without some further initiative on our part there will be nothing else to report for some considerable time.
It is obvious from talking with civil servants, whether they are supportive of bowhunting or not, that they do not see an obvious course towards legalisation. The reason for this is that primary legislation (The Wildlife and Countryside Act and the Deer Act) need to be amended. This requires political will. Presenting the concept of bowhunting to their SNH Board is not something the department advising on deer control at SNH can see happening in the short or even medium term. We need to demonstrate wider support from recognised bodies to give SNH something tangible to take forward. At their behest I spoke to Scottish Land and Estates who expressed support for the idea. Needless to say the SSPCA could not be brought on board. I have heard of softening attitudes within parts of the Deer Society and BASC. But until attitudes soften to the point of publicly expressed support we must look elsewhere for progress towards our goal.
Where Next?
The Bowhunt Scotland site sits there making the case passively to any who might be interested. An active campaign however, requires planning and strategy that go beyond what a simple informative web site provides. Knowing where we are headed next and how we intend to get there is vital if the campaign is not to stall. The exercise of putting together the site content is only the first stage in achieving legalisation. Unfortunately my design skills are now used up and someone with marketing skills would be better placed to take the campaign to the next level. Is that you? We need to work with the BBA executive to identify actions we need to take together to keep bowhunting on the agenda and the registered interested parties informed, from time to time, about what we are doing or intend to do to advance the campaign.
Whilst running a campaign is not something I know a lot about, there is one action we should now take that will keep us moving forward: I believe the BBA must work towards demanding a Scottish Bowhunting Trial. A demand is a different animal for a civil servant to deal with. Instead of sitting on his hands he must at the very least come up with good reasons not to hold a trial. And since we will be demanding a scientific trial for the purpose of answering questions to which he does not have authoritative answers, he will need to work hard to argue against it. In fact I believe it will be smartly off his plate and referred to his superiors – the SNH Board and indeed politicians – for a decision ‘pretty damn quick’.
Integral to the demand is the structure of the national bowhunting trial itself. The demand must be accompanied by a developed trial structure. I do not agree with the idea that the trial will be whatever we are given by SNH. SNH knows very little about bowhunting. Instead we should be recommending and providing a structure that is both practical to bowhunters and sets out to answer questions to which we wish to demonstrate the answers. Then conferring with SNH to refine the design for the right trial. A structured proposal will be the central ingredient of our demand for a trial. It will describe exactly how the trial should be structured and managed, its scale and duration, what questions it will answer and how it will find the answers. It will be a comprehensive proposal, vetted and approved by the EBF and laid out in sufficient detail to allow costing. It’s structure will be scrutinised by vets, forensic pathologists, animal welfare organisations. It’s results will be objective and irrefutable.
It has always seemed unsatisfactory to me that in the likes of the Danish trial, which seems to be the best model we have, that the results hang on the unsupported word of bowhunters. Surely a weakness that needs to be addressed and something surely possible in this technological age! Do you have any thoughts on this? The NBEF and the EBF will help us design the trial in the light of their wide experience. If between us we create a resilient skeleton trial designed to answer the questions of game managers and the general public, surely it will be in high demand by campaigning bowhunters around Europe and the world. In fact, why have we not been offered this already on a plate? Please let us have your thoughts on how to move forward, if you agree we should be demanding a Scottish bowhunting trial and how that trial should be designed.
Might I ask EBF representatives in particular to comment on the last paragraph, and in particular the design of the bowhunting trial for Scotland?
Kind regards,
Ian Kirkwood
A campaign of the British Bowhunters Association
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
This e-mail is an update on the activities of Bowhunt Scotland, a campaign of the British Bowhunters Association. Included are suggestions of ways you can help promote bowhunting here in Scotland. Please take time to read the second half of this e-mail and get in touch with your own ideas about my proposed demand for a National Bowhunting Trial and how it might look in detail.
Join the BBA
If you are in the UK please consider joining the British Bowhunters Association. The number of members is crucial in improving BBA credibility as we push for legalisation. The BBA has a new membership category for supporters of bowhunting. See [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
Overseas Support
Thank you to the many from outside the UK who have expressed support. I intend to publish some of your comments and encouragement in the near future. We need all the encouragement we can get!
Insurance
Recently insurance for Bowhunting – where legal – has been made automatically available to members of BASC. See [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] This is a big deal for any who are concerned about potential incidents when practising with broadheads fitted. It includes third party liability for this. That a growing number of BASC staff are aware of bowhunting and its capabilities and are themselves bowhunters is most encouraging. The BBA is in talks with BASC to make the same insurance available to BBA members.
BDS
Now that Ray Mears is on the board of the British Deer Society, there are signs that it might be ready to soften its stance on bowhunting. BDS approached the BBA at England's CLA Game Fair requesting bowhunting information. In the past this would have been most unlikely.
SNH Ballistic Testing
The inclusion of bowhunting equipment in this proposed test of all relevant ammunition by Scottish Natural Heritage is still to proceed. But there has been a delay while SNH carefully design the test in order to be clear about what questions they need to answer. This is now likely to take place in 2012.
Spread the word
Please continue to make Bowhunt Scotland known amongst any interested persons you are aware of. All support is appreciated. The more who sign up to receive updates, the more popular we can demonstrate bowhunting to be, and move towards legalising bowhunting in Scotland and indeed the UK.
Finally, for your information and the opportunity to comment on the route towards legal bowhunting in Scotland and the UK, the rest of this e-mail constitutes my recently submitted short article for publication in the British Bowhunters Association Newsletter which looks at our progress and attempts to plot a future course:
Bowhunting in the UK
You may have heard of Bowhunt Scotland, a web campaign to legalise bowhunting. My name is Ian Kirkwood. I built this simple site bowhuntscotland.elrig.net and brochure in January 2010 after sitting on the idea for many years. I had the privilege of bowhunting in Zimbabwe with the late Douglas Mitchell (former chairman of the BBA) and other BBA members in 1997, a fantastic experience which served to build my frustration at not being able to bowhunt on my own doorstep. It may be useful to let you know a bit about myself and what I am hoping to achieve.
From my window I watch fallow and roe regularly and am the kind of hunter/angler who simply wishes to put one in the freezer occasionally, with the satisfaction of having caught it by myself in a fair chase. Although I have always had an air rifle I have never been much interested in hunting with the gun. Nor has travelling to far flung hunting venues been a strong ambition for me.
I met Douglas and the Ladywell Field Archers at their Dunkeld club in about 1991/2. I was always interested in hunting rather than competition and it turned out Douglas was the perfect teacher. Over the years I learned from him the wide-ranging contents of the NBEF manual and its practical application. We shot hundreds of arrows, followed fake blood trails, gralloched and dragged (rifle shot) deer, skinned and butchered carcases. I gained my IBEP card and assisted Douglas in training new bowhunters from Scandinavia.
Along the way there were numerous interesting events. I met Tim Poole (NBEF President at the time) occasionally when he was here visiting Douglas and ended up designing the NBEF magazine which I named Broadhead. Unfortunately it only went to one issue due to a lack of funding, but I was always keen to do anything I could to further the popularity of bowhunting.
Even as a novice I wondered why nobody was actively promoting bowhunting in the UK. I wrote a short paper entitled, A draft plan to legalise Bowhunting in the UK. When I showed it to Douglas and Clive they looked wrong-footed or even offended. I never received any further feedback or comment. It seems that a general pessimism about the prospect of bowhunting becoming possible in Britain was the norm in the BBA then and has been ever since, which I can understand. In the end this may be born out, but surely someone must at least put the case for bowhunting here. And if not us, who?
Whatever the unexpressed view of 15-20 years ago, a lot has changed since then. Scotland has acquired devolved government. This has opened up the possibility of meeting local civil servants and politicians in an effort to promote bowhunting. Suddenly unexpected angles, unrelated to the usual bowhunting issues, have acquired a kind of logic that was not there before, e.g. the concept that bowhunting would be good thing to have in Scotland – because it is something England does not have.
The BBA has adopted the Bowhunt Scotland campaign as one way of pushing for bowhunting in the UK. I would ask BBA members throughout the UK to give this limited campaign their support as a way of potentially securing a foothold from which bowhunting can spread to the rest of the UK.
Bowhunt Scotland
I call it a campaign, but it is rather passive really. More a statement of the case for bowhunting and a source of correct information. I designed a booklet (currently only in pdf format) called Ethical Bowhunting in Scotland. It is downloadable from the site [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien] It is worth looking over the booklet and the site content. Your input as bowhunters and BBA members is welcome as there may well be good arguments that are not included or technical mistakes that need to be corrected.
So Far
So far we have enjoyed a meeting in March 2010 with the Scottish Natural Heritage deer managers (SNH absorbed the former Deer Commission for Scotland in 2010) and received the promise of a scientific evaluation of bowhunting equipment in an upcoming general test of ammunition, now to be held probably in 2012. At the Scone Game Fair near Perth we had much positive feedback and hope to take a stand there when one becomes available. This is all good so far as it goes. But without some further initiative on our part there will be nothing else to report for some considerable time.
It is obvious from talking with civil servants, whether they are supportive of bowhunting or not, that they do not see an obvious course towards legalisation. The reason for this is that primary legislation (The Wildlife and Countryside Act and the Deer Act) need to be amended. This requires political will. Presenting the concept of bowhunting to their SNH Board is not something the department advising on deer control at SNH can see happening in the short or even medium term. We need to demonstrate wider support from recognised bodies to give SNH something tangible to take forward. At their behest I spoke to Scottish Land and Estates who expressed support for the idea. Needless to say the SSPCA could not be brought on board. I have heard of softening attitudes within parts of the Deer Society and BASC. But until attitudes soften to the point of publicly expressed support we must look elsewhere for progress towards our goal.
Where Next?
The Bowhunt Scotland site sits there making the case passively to any who might be interested. An active campaign however, requires planning and strategy that go beyond what a simple informative web site provides. Knowing where we are headed next and how we intend to get there is vital if the campaign is not to stall. The exercise of putting together the site content is only the first stage in achieving legalisation. Unfortunately my design skills are now used up and someone with marketing skills would be better placed to take the campaign to the next level. Is that you? We need to work with the BBA executive to identify actions we need to take together to keep bowhunting on the agenda and the registered interested parties informed, from time to time, about what we are doing or intend to do to advance the campaign.
Whilst running a campaign is not something I know a lot about, there is one action we should now take that will keep us moving forward: I believe the BBA must work towards demanding a Scottish Bowhunting Trial. A demand is a different animal for a civil servant to deal with. Instead of sitting on his hands he must at the very least come up with good reasons not to hold a trial. And since we will be demanding a scientific trial for the purpose of answering questions to which he does not have authoritative answers, he will need to work hard to argue against it. In fact I believe it will be smartly off his plate and referred to his superiors – the SNH Board and indeed politicians – for a decision ‘pretty damn quick’.
Integral to the demand is the structure of the national bowhunting trial itself. The demand must be accompanied by a developed trial structure. I do not agree with the idea that the trial will be whatever we are given by SNH. SNH knows very little about bowhunting. Instead we should be recommending and providing a structure that is both practical to bowhunters and sets out to answer questions to which we wish to demonstrate the answers. Then conferring with SNH to refine the design for the right trial. A structured proposal will be the central ingredient of our demand for a trial. It will describe exactly how the trial should be structured and managed, its scale and duration, what questions it will answer and how it will find the answers. It will be a comprehensive proposal, vetted and approved by the EBF and laid out in sufficient detail to allow costing. It’s structure will be scrutinised by vets, forensic pathologists, animal welfare organisations. It’s results will be objective and irrefutable.
It has always seemed unsatisfactory to me that in the likes of the Danish trial, which seems to be the best model we have, that the results hang on the unsupported word of bowhunters. Surely a weakness that needs to be addressed and something surely possible in this technological age! Do you have any thoughts on this? The NBEF and the EBF will help us design the trial in the light of their wide experience. If between us we create a resilient skeleton trial designed to answer the questions of game managers and the general public, surely it will be in high demand by campaigning bowhunters around Europe and the world. In fact, why have we not been offered this already on a plate? Please let us have your thoughts on how to move forward, if you agree we should be demanding a Scottish bowhunting trial and how that trial should be designed.
Might I ask EBF representatives in particular to comment on the last paragraph, and in particular the design of the bowhunting trial for Scotland?
Kind regards,
Ian Kirkwood
A campaign of the British Bowhunters Association
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
_________________
Misanthrope en thérapie.
On fait ce qu'on peut, mais il y a la manière.
La tradition n'est pas le culte des cendres, mais la préservation du feu.
Virgil- Admin
- Messages : 771
Date d'inscription : 15/12/2010
Age : 54
Localisation : Paris -
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par J-F Ven 13 Jan - 12:56
Salut a tous,
"et ben" a croire que ca fait un an que j´hiberne moi, j´etais completement passe a cote de ca!!!
Franchement l´Ecosse c´est une athmosphere incroyable (et je ne parle meme pas des "deers" ici!! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Tiens ca me fout un petit truc au coeur d´avoir decouvert ce topic et ces infos [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Merci,
A+++
J-F
"et ben" a croire que ca fait un an que j´hiberne moi, j´etais completement passe a cote de ca!!!
Franchement l´Ecosse c´est une athmosphere incroyable (et je ne parle meme pas des "deers" ici!! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Tiens ca me fout un petit truc au coeur d´avoir decouvert ce topic et ces infos [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Merci,
A+++
J-F
J-F- Messages : 113
Date d'inscription : 23/12/2010
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par kibok Ven 13 Jan - 15:32
J-F a écrit:Salut a tous,
"et ben" a croire que ca fait un an que j´hiberne moi, j´etais completement passe a cote de ca!!!
Franchement l´Ecosse c´est une athmosphere incroyable (et je ne parle meme pas des "deers" ici!! [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Tiens ca me fout un petit truc au coeur d´avoir decouvert ce topic et ces infos [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
Merci,
A+++
J-F
ben justemment tu peux pas nous faire un ch'ti resumé ???? [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
_________________
kibok- Membre Bienfaiteur
- Messages : 11177
Date d'inscription : 13/12/2010
Localisation : TRUE-SUD
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par kibok Ven 13 Jan - 16:40
bel effort a venir mais te casse pas trop la tète une synthese suffit !!!
_________________
kibok- Membre Bienfaiteur
- Messages : 11177
Date d'inscription : 13/12/2010
Localisation : TRUE-SUD
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par J-F Sam 14 Jan - 12:25
OK
Kibok ce sera plus simple a lire c´est clair.
Post du 27 Avril 2011:
C´est Ian Kirkwood qui parle.
En mars 2011: Reunion de l´asso de chasse a l´arc de Grande Bretagne (BBA=British
Bowhunters Association) avec le Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH=large asso
officielle en charge de la gestion nature au grand large en Ecosse donc,
notamment de la gestion des cervides, et de leur chasse) . Pour ceux qui ne le
savent pas, Sid Ball est le meme que celui de Borders Archery (le pere j´imagine).
Ils ont discute de chasse a l´arc de facon large avec notamment son utilisation
pour la gestion des cervides en Ecosse (dont le grand nombre pose probleme Dans
la concervation de l´habitat et les accidents de la route notamment), mais
aussi du potentiel de la chasse a l´arc pour la gestion du chevreuil en milieu
peri urbain, ou encore de la presence de l´arc comme arme dans un test d´evaluation
de differentes munitions plus tard dans l´annee 2011.
Pour faire avancer la cause de la chasse a l´arc, le SNH demande au BBA de trouver de
l´appui a l´exterieur du monde de la chasse a l´arc (et meme mieux du monde de la
chasse en general), pour avoir du poid. Le BBA a donc notamment rencontrer les
proprietaires terriens, qui sont tres puissants en Ecosse du fait que les
terrains sont en grande majorite
prives.
En bref, premier meeting tres positif dans le (tres) long cheminement vers la legalisation
de la chasse a l´arc en Ecosse.
Le BBA veut organiser une journee de presentation du materiel de chasse avec la SNH et
les proprietaires terriens. C´est prevu pour l´ete 2011.
Voili voilou pour la premiere lettre postee par Virgil.
Je me colle a la seconde.
A+++
J-F
Kibok ce sera plus simple a lire c´est clair.
Post du 27 Avril 2011:
C´est Ian Kirkwood qui parle.
En mars 2011: Reunion de l´asso de chasse a l´arc de Grande Bretagne (BBA=British
Bowhunters Association) avec le Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH=large asso
officielle en charge de la gestion nature au grand large en Ecosse donc,
notamment de la gestion des cervides, et de leur chasse) . Pour ceux qui ne le
savent pas, Sid Ball est le meme que celui de Borders Archery (le pere j´imagine).
Ils ont discute de chasse a l´arc de facon large avec notamment son utilisation
pour la gestion des cervides en Ecosse (dont le grand nombre pose probleme Dans
la concervation de l´habitat et les accidents de la route notamment), mais
aussi du potentiel de la chasse a l´arc pour la gestion du chevreuil en milieu
peri urbain, ou encore de la presence de l´arc comme arme dans un test d´evaluation
de differentes munitions plus tard dans l´annee 2011.
Pour faire avancer la cause de la chasse a l´arc, le SNH demande au BBA de trouver de
l´appui a l´exterieur du monde de la chasse a l´arc (et meme mieux du monde de la
chasse en general), pour avoir du poid. Le BBA a donc notamment rencontrer les
proprietaires terriens, qui sont tres puissants en Ecosse du fait que les
terrains sont en grande majorite
prives.
En bref, premier meeting tres positif dans le (tres) long cheminement vers la legalisation
de la chasse a l´arc en Ecosse.
Le BBA veut organiser une journee de presentation du materiel de chasse avec la SNH et
les proprietaires terriens. C´est prevu pour l´ete 2011.
Voili voilou pour la premiere lettre postee par Virgil.
Je me colle a la seconde.
A+++
J-F
Dernière édition par J-F le Sam 14 Jan - 13:09, édité 1 fois
J-F- Messages : 113
Date d'inscription : 23/12/2010
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par J-F Sam 14 Jan - 13:07
Texte poste par Virgil avant hier:
Meme auteur: Ian Kirkwood qui semble etre a la base de ce mouvement en Ecosse.
Je vous passe le debut qui est du blabla necessaire mais pas vraiment important sur ATO.
Juste une chose: les tests balistiques prevus en 2011 (voir ci dessus), incluant les fleches propulsees par un arc, sont repoussees pour
2012.
La deuxieme partie concerne un texte (toujours du meme auteur) pour le BBA.
Ian explique vite fait le pourquoi du comment de Bowhunt Scotland (voir le site sur le lien de Kibok au depart de ce topic, ainsi que la
plaquette de presentation [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
La aussi je vous passé l´historique, mais ce qui est important c´est que l´organisation politique en Ecosse permet maintenant de
pouvoir “discuter” le cas de la chasse a l´arc, notamment pour se demarquer de l´Angleterre (hey, hey, hey rigolez pas c´est SUPER IMPORTANT pour ceux qui connaissent un peu l´atmosphere en Ecosse ;o)
Les premiers retours sont positifs (voir premiere lettre ci dessus) mais il faut encore bouger de la part des chasseurs a l´arc sinon rien
n´arrivera! En bref, si les chasseurs a l´arc ne bougent pas continuellement, rien ne bougera.
Au final, il y a une legislation a changer (“The Wildlife and Countryside Act and the Deer Act”, c´est de la fin des annees 70 ou debut 80 de
memoire) et bien sur ca ne peut pas arriver d´un claquement de doigts. Il n´y a pas de flou juridique en UK et c´est interdit officiellement depuis 30 ans, point barre, d´ou la difficulte!
Comme dit dans la premiere lettre il faut donc du poids, beaucoup de poids, EN FAVEUR de la chasse a l´arc (comme les proprietaires
terriens entre autres) .
Pour cela, Ian cherche une ou des persones avec des capacites de marketing et de presentation pour mettre au point une campagne de
presentation de la chasse a l´arc et de son interet pour l´Ecosse, notamment dans la gestion des grands cervides et donc du milieu.
Pour finir Ian explique qu´il est sur que la legalisation passera par un test de capacite pour la chasse a l´arc.
Il veut que ce test soit propose et mise au point par (ou au moins avec une grosse partde consultation) l´asso de chasse a l´arc britanique (BBA), donc par des gents qui connaissent, plutot que d´etre impose par la SNH avec les risques evidents que ce soit completement inadapte du au manque de connaissance de la chasse a l´arc par les personne en charge.
Pour ce faire il en appel a tous, chasseurs a l´arc du monde entier, pour proposer des idees pour ce test, que ce soit des particuliers ou
des organismes et associations officiels: comme l´EBF (European Bowhunting Federation, organisme Europeen), le NBEF (National Bowhunter Education Foundation des USA)… la FFCA par exemple peut aussi aider si elle a des idees.
C´est ouvert a tous, donc si des members d´ATO ont des idees pour ce test et son deroulement, ils peuvent contacter Ian: [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
Voili voilou en gros.
Donc c´est pas gagne encore, tres loin de la, mais c´est un premier pas, un GROS!
La suite dependra en premier lieu (comme souvent!) du renouvellement d´energie afin que le mouvement ne s´essoufle pas, en trouvant
les bonnes personnes avec la motivations et le savoir sur des terrains specifiques (communication ou marketing par exmple, ou encore le droit etc…)!
A++++
J-F
Meme auteur: Ian Kirkwood qui semble etre a la base de ce mouvement en Ecosse.
Je vous passe le debut qui est du blabla necessaire mais pas vraiment important sur ATO.
Juste une chose: les tests balistiques prevus en 2011 (voir ci dessus), incluant les fleches propulsees par un arc, sont repoussees pour
2012.
La deuxieme partie concerne un texte (toujours du meme auteur) pour le BBA.
Ian explique vite fait le pourquoi du comment de Bowhunt Scotland (voir le site sur le lien de Kibok au depart de ce topic, ainsi que la
plaquette de presentation [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
La aussi je vous passé l´historique, mais ce qui est important c´est que l´organisation politique en Ecosse permet maintenant de
pouvoir “discuter” le cas de la chasse a l´arc, notamment pour se demarquer de l´Angleterre (hey, hey, hey rigolez pas c´est SUPER IMPORTANT pour ceux qui connaissent un peu l´atmosphere en Ecosse ;o)
Les premiers retours sont positifs (voir premiere lettre ci dessus) mais il faut encore bouger de la part des chasseurs a l´arc sinon rien
n´arrivera! En bref, si les chasseurs a l´arc ne bougent pas continuellement, rien ne bougera.
Au final, il y a une legislation a changer (“The Wildlife and Countryside Act and the Deer Act”, c´est de la fin des annees 70 ou debut 80 de
memoire) et bien sur ca ne peut pas arriver d´un claquement de doigts. Il n´y a pas de flou juridique en UK et c´est interdit officiellement depuis 30 ans, point barre, d´ou la difficulte!
Comme dit dans la premiere lettre il faut donc du poids, beaucoup de poids, EN FAVEUR de la chasse a l´arc (comme les proprietaires
terriens entre autres) .
Pour cela, Ian cherche une ou des persones avec des capacites de marketing et de presentation pour mettre au point une campagne de
presentation de la chasse a l´arc et de son interet pour l´Ecosse, notamment dans la gestion des grands cervides et donc du milieu.
Pour finir Ian explique qu´il est sur que la legalisation passera par un test de capacite pour la chasse a l´arc.
Il veut que ce test soit propose et mise au point par (ou au moins avec une grosse partde consultation) l´asso de chasse a l´arc britanique (BBA), donc par des gents qui connaissent, plutot que d´etre impose par la SNH avec les risques evidents que ce soit completement inadapte du au manque de connaissance de la chasse a l´arc par les personne en charge.
Pour ce faire il en appel a tous, chasseurs a l´arc du monde entier, pour proposer des idees pour ce test, que ce soit des particuliers ou
des organismes et associations officiels: comme l´EBF (European Bowhunting Federation, organisme Europeen), le NBEF (National Bowhunter Education Foundation des USA)… la FFCA par exemple peut aussi aider si elle a des idees.
C´est ouvert a tous, donc si des members d´ATO ont des idees pour ce test et son deroulement, ils peuvent contacter Ian: [Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir ce lien]
Voili voilou en gros.
Donc c´est pas gagne encore, tres loin de la, mais c´est un premier pas, un GROS!
La suite dependra en premier lieu (comme souvent!) du renouvellement d´energie afin que le mouvement ne s´essoufle pas, en trouvant
les bonnes personnes avec la motivations et le savoir sur des terrains specifiques (communication ou marketing par exmple, ou encore le droit etc…)!
A++++
J-F
J-F- Messages : 113
Date d'inscription : 23/12/2010
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par J-F Sam 14 Jan - 18:02
[Vous devez être inscrit et connecté pour voir cette image]
OK donc c´est 1981 exactement, et vous pouvez voir dans la part 1 Section 11 ci dessus que c´est le "any bow" qui pose probleme et qui interdit tres clairement l´emploi de l´arc.
Il est vraiment pas mal fait ce site de bowhuntscotland!
A+++
J-F
OK donc c´est 1981 exactement, et vous pouvez voir dans la part 1 Section 11 ci dessus que c´est le "any bow" qui pose probleme et qui interdit tres clairement l´emploi de l´arc.
Il est vraiment pas mal fait ce site de bowhuntscotland!
A+++
J-F
J-F- Messages : 113
Date d'inscription : 23/12/2010
Re: Bowhunting Scotland
par foudarme Dim 15 Jan - 19:41
c'est marrant cette idée de tests balistiques...juste une idée comme ça: que tous ceux qui sont contre se mettent juste en face...puisque ça n'est pas efficace, ils n'auront rien à craindre
plus sérieusement, pourquoi vouloir réinventer l'eau tiède...si ça marche partout ailleurs où l'on s'en donne les moyens alors pourquoi ça ne marcherait pas autant en écosse...ce qu'il leur faut c'est des chiffres et comme interlocuteurs des fédérations nationales...les hommes politiques ne reconnaissent pas grand chose d'autre (hormis les lobbies)
plus sérieusement, pourquoi vouloir réinventer l'eau tiède...si ça marche partout ailleurs où l'on s'en donne les moyens alors pourquoi ça ne marcherait pas autant en écosse...ce qu'il leur faut c'est des chiffres et comme interlocuteurs des fédérations nationales...les hommes politiques ne reconnaissent pas grand chose d'autre (hormis les lobbies)
_________________
quand je me regarde je me désole, quand je me compare je me console...
foudarme- Messages : 6176
Date d'inscription : 13/12/2010
Localisation : ici puis là...mais jamais lontemps!
Les fiches de tir FFCA
par patricweill Mer 15 Fév - 16:02
Bonjour,
Je suis en rapport avec Ian et, avec l'accord de la FFCA , je lui est traduit les rapports synthétiques des fiches de tirs tels que publiées dans Trait d'Union.
je lui est parlé la semaine dernière et il sont en attente d'un accord pour un stand dans la plus grande fete de la chasse en Ecosse début Juillet .
Je ne manquerais pas de vous donner des nouvelles
Patrick
Je suis en rapport avec Ian et, avec l'accord de la FFCA , je lui est traduit les rapports synthétiques des fiches de tirs tels que publiées dans Trait d'Union.
je lui est parlé la semaine dernière et il sont en attente d'un accord pour un stand dans la plus grande fete de la chasse en Ecosse début Juillet .
Je ne manquerais pas de vous donner des nouvelles
Patrick
patricweill- Messages : 18
Date d'inscription : 28/01/2012
Age : 78
Localisation : Sarthe
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